Insulated Tent?

[Undersky]

Just wondering ... has anyone sewn up an insulated tent? Or used a commercially manufactured one? Or dreamed of making one?

I appreciate that some may be thinking, "insulated tent!!?! That is definitely not traditional!" But then I think of a few other things that many in the winter camping community embrace already such as titanium wood stoves, polyethylene toboggans, In-Reach devices, ....

So what about having something more than one layer between the -30 side and the +20 side of our tent walls? Would an inch or two of synthetic insulation sandwiched between two water-proof layers, ideally with no sewn-through seams, and minimal places where the insulation is squished make much difference to our comfort level?

How big and heavy would the insulated tent be?
What shape / design would be optimal?
How much heat would be required to keep things toasty? Maybe half the stove that a typical un-insulated hot tent of the same volume would need?
How much fresh air ventilation would be required to keep the condensation at zero, and the relative humidity low?
Would moisture from cooking be problematic?

Would the whole project be worthwhile?

Thank you ahead of time for your thoughts!

[Scoutergriz]

I know several people that have Arctic Oven insulated tents, they're definitely better at holding the heat, but they're also substantially heaver and bulkier than a conventional tent and not really an option when hauling sled...

[Undersky]

Thanks Scoutergriz.
I agree, volume and weight of the packed tent are critical characteristics, and they may be show-stoppers, especially for an insulated tent equivalent to a 4-person full sized tent.
But, maybe for something smaller ....

[brianw]

Many people use insulated pop up ice fishing shelters for hot tents with success. It is usually just a matter of making a stove jack fit into an existing window.
There are also lots of double wall tents that work well as hot tents. They are not insulated per se. But still air is a decent insulator. Bereg makes pop up double wall hot tents that are also popular. The challenge is they are heavy and bulky and since they are Russian made, product availability is a challenge currently.

Cheers

Brian

[Undersky]

Thanks for your ideas, Brian, I had not looked at the Bereg pop-up tents much before - yep they are heavy & bulky. I agree that a 'dead-air space' between two layers makes a huge difference, reducing the rate of heat loss and reducing the infiltration of cold air. I notice that some brands of heavy double tent have dedicated combustion air intake vents behind the stove. Even in a typical single-walled tent, a combustion air vent near the stove would reduce cold drafts streaming past campers.

[Justin P.]

I have a tiny one man flip over style ice shanty that is insulated, it's quilted and maybe only 1/4" or 5/16" thick.
It does make a difference.
But a whole tent 1"-2" thick would be massively bulky, cozy, but bulky.
You'd have the bulk of two tents, inner and outer, plus 1"-2" of insulation.
I think a double wall with no insulation, like the original teepee might work pretty good for a luxury dwelling without the huge bulk and weight penalty.

[Undersky]

"Cozy, but bulky" I agree, Justin. That is the balance to be explored, I guess, along with the difference in heat retention and wood consumption. There is no question that, as you have noted, plains 1st Nations teepees were so well engineered! Some even had combustion air intakes running from outside the teepee under the floor to the edge of the fire pit. These were made of split poles gouged out and then lashed back together. Some groups did use insulation when they had it at hand, but I have not read about any people taking the insulation with them when they moved camps. Then again, I wonder what amazing shelters the Blackfoot would have designed if they had ripstopbytheroll to get materials and insulation from?!
Thanks Justin!

[Heavy Duty]

I've two versions of an insulated hot tent. One is a double wall, (outer is sil-nylon) (inner cotton) and an insulated ice fishing hub shanty with a stove jack.

Both are ridiculously hot when burning the smallest amount of wood. I can see the advantage to an insulated tent when the wind is high.

The weight is something to consider but a double wall tent works well.

[Undersky]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, HD!

Double-walled tents definitely have heating advantages over single-walled tents on cold weather (below -25F / -32C) trips. When using an old Korean war double-walled, center-pole, 12-pullout bell tent with school kids we had the door wide open when the stove was hustling during meal preparation.

I've done some napkin calculations re volume and weight of materials, and unless I am planning to have a dedicated sled just for the tent, I will be making a small one - maybe big enough for 2 people at the most.

I wonder how much advantage is gained in heat retention when the tent wall insulation is an inch thick rather than 1/4 inch ?

[Kinguq]

I made one many years ago when I lived in the Arctic. Started with a Woods 8 x 10 wall tent. Then I made a virtually identical tent thinsulate, a sheet synthetic insulation, faced with coated nylon on the inner side. This inner tent was attached to the inside of the outer canvas tent using simple ties.

It was very warm using just a Coleman stove. It rolls into a rather bulky package, but that was not a problem when using a qamutiq and snowmobile.

When I moved south, I thought of using it as a sauna tent. I even put in a thimble and tried it with a wood stove. It certainly got hot enough inside, but I couldn't really think of a use case, particularly since I have a sauna in my house. For general use, it is too bulky for hand hauling and it is just way too warm with a wood stove.

In my view, a properly sized wood stove puts out plenty of heat for an uninsulated tent in forest country.

Kinguq.

[Undersky]

Thank you for posting, Kinguq. Yours is the kind of experience that I have not had myself, but that I still hope to learn from.

( Lucky you to have a sauna in your house - beautiful bit of 'technology' and life style that is! )

I agree with you that a good stove/tent combo works beautifully. I have enjoyed many such set-ups in temps all the way from being too warm for the stove" to -44C. At the cold end you've got to seek out good quality wood, and you definitely cut, split and burn a lot more! On those trips you've got to enjoy cutting and splitting firewood - which I do.

Personally, I love moving, and being on the move. Don't get me wrong, lazing around the hot tent for hours is a wonderful "activity", especially when on a trip with other friends. But, I also like being on the move, and having the visual world around me change continuously. As well, on some trips, a goal is to cover greater distances per day. So, the hope now is to sew up a tent that is insulated to retain heat better, thereby reducing the required stove size, and reducing the time spent gathering and processing good wood. This tent will be used when the time spend travelling is more important than time spent setting up camp (including wood processing). If I can arrive at a new campsite, knock the air out of a tent pad, cut & split wood, and have the tent & stove set up in 30 minutes, that would give me an extra hour or more each day for travel.

Right now my thoughts are on a small solo tent, or maybe one just big enough for two and a stove. It might have 2-3 cm of synthetic insulation layered between an impermeable inside skin and a weather-proof outside. Perhaps this 'quilt' will clip to an exterior pole frame for easy mitts-on pitching. I may be able to get away with only two anchor points, another time saver.

All still a daydream for now though! I'll post when I get the project done

Thanks again, Kinguq!

[Kinguq]

Another route to get where you want to go is simply to use a small stove in a small tent. I converted an old Eureka Alpine Meadows to hot tent use by cutting out the floor and putting thimbles through the tent and fly. The tent has an external frame with hooks and sets up very quickly.

I made the stove from a small canning pot, about 8" in diameter. It has a baffle and uses 3" vent pipe as chimney. You have to cut the wood short. In any event the wood consumption is a fraction of that of a larger stove.

Great setup solo or for two.

Kinguq

[Undersky]

A double-walled Alpine Meadows would be pretty cozy for sure! I have yet to make a double-walled small tent, but the most recent single walled tent project is well heated by a homemade stove (4L Coleman fuel can) with a roll-up Ti pipe down to -10C / +14F. Below that I use a larger homemade stove that is about 8L in volume. Yes, you end up cutting far less wood - one large armload does it for the whole evening - but it needs to be cut small. Another bonus, as Snowbound mentions below, is the axe and saw can be smaller, too: a 30cm Silky and a <2lb axe work fine on such small wood.
As you say, at the end of my rabbit hole, small double-walled tent may end up being the best mix of weight, bulk, and wood consumption.
Thanks again, Kinguq.

[Snowbound]

I haven’t made an insulated tent but have messed around with several double wall tents. My goals are similar to yours with wanting an efficient shelter to reduce time spent gathering wood and maximize travel time. I would estimate I go through 1/4 the wood that I would burn in my snowtrekker. I bring a smaller stove, axe and saw. And the tent is lighter too. I’m currently using a 9’x10’ big Agnes I converted to a hot tent weighing 14 pounds. I fear adding a try insulation layer to a tent build would add too much work, weight and bulk for my purposes and preferences. Although it can be done. I saw a guy that made a tiny insulated yurt. The thing look super cozy but filled his entire rooftop Thule box.

[Undersky]

I might have seen an iteration of that yurt, too, Snowbound. Could he have had it at WCS about 4 years ago? It definitely looked neat! I guess yurts have a lot more frame than either you or I would consider for an efficiently carried and easy-to-pitch shelter. Still, I am sure it made you look twice
Wow, 90 sq ft from a 14 lb package! Your Big Agnes conversion is efficient for sure.
My insulation and material layers will have to be quite light and compressible to meet reasonable efficiency and bulk criteria. Right now I am thinking of converting an old NF Westwind to an insulated solo hot tent. I may extend the lengths of the 3 poles to allow a little more head room and width. I'll post when the project is at its next stage.
Thank you for your thoughts, Snowbound.

[Snowbound]

Yes, that insulated yurt was at the WCS. Post photos of your conversion when done.

[Bkrgi]

Like everything it is a world of trade offs.
As cool of a idea it would be to make one I just don't want to deal with the weight and bulk.
Right now my "light" setup is 7lbs for stove and tent and packs super small. My cotton tent setup is more than enough bulk and weight for me even with a large Ti stove.
But for some the extra insulating value may be a big positive. Cool to see the choices out there though.

[Bushpilot]

We use a Crua Culla Max when wanting a quick set up. It has worked great, we stay quite warm. I've had it out in 12F with heavy bags as well as pads and slept soundly. It's heavier and uses air beams that you inflate instead of poles which held up to the wind better than I expected. It fits inside a "shell" tent and we use it free standing.

[Heavy Duty]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, HD!

Double-walled tents definitely have heating advantages over single-walled tents on cold weather (below -25F / -32C) trips. When using an old Korean war double-walled, center-pole, 12-pullout bell tent with school kids we had the door wide open when the stove was hustling during meal preparation.

I've done some napkin calculations re volume and weight of materials, and unless I am planning to have a dedicated sled just for the tent, I will be making a small one - maybe big enough for 2 people at the most.

I wonder how much advantage is gained in heat retention when the tent wall insulation is an inch thick rather than 1/4 inch ?

The gains would be ten fold for stove efficiency and heat retention. However, that would be a beast to set up and pack....Although this is my assumption, I say go for it and see how it will work.