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Prioritizing new purchases
I literally have a room full of gear for wilderness canoeing. I am struggling to know how to prioritize adding equipment for winter camping. Looking for experts to chime in on prioritizing purchases. For some reason, I am really struggling with this. I think it is because I have a lot of gear and am not sure what I should purchase first. I am also not sure what I might be able to use but add something (for example, clothing-do I need a whole new set of clothes or just a better shell?)..I try to avoid a massive purchase of a bunch of items, but purchase a few items each year. Maybe this is not possible for winter camping. For example, could I use a regular tent if I have a warm enough bag? I have a warm bag, but not specifically for super cold temps. I think my winter bag is rated to -20 but questionable. Would you buy a whole new bag or a liner or....Would you recommend purchasing special clothing (specific coats or brands)? Are there certain items you would recommend renting various types before buying? So...I know this is somewhat of a vague question. I am looking for advice on prioritizing purchases, especially for next winter when I hope to actually go out up North .....You don't have to cover everything, but it would be helpful to hear thoughts from the experts. Signed, befuddled
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Hard to give an answer until you give us a list of exactly what you have and some details about your planned/expected trips and also what your winter dreams are.
But based on my limited experience it's clothing first, followed by a sleep system.
I have to ask why you think you need to buy new gear.
So what's actually wrong with the gear you already have?
What's a "Regular" tent in your mind?
How are you planning to travel? Sled or pulk or skis/snowshoes/snowmobile? -
I kinda realized I didn't give enough detail after I posted. : ) The majority of my overnight and/or wilderness adventures have been in spring, summer, fall (so, most of my gear matches this). I think my inventory is inadequate for serious winter travel.
I hike pretty consistently in the winter and I have done some winter camping with a car right there. My winter adventures have been low stakes. I hope to move North (fates allowing), and I would like to eventually go out for longer periods of time, with higher stakes. Sled and snowshoe/skis. Ideally, not by myself until I have experience.
So, that is one point that is a little confusing to me. I have a hodgepodge of layers and clothing for canoeing, hiking, biking in cold temps. But, if the stakes go up, I was curious if I should have more specialized winter camping clothing? In people's photos, it looks like specialized fur coats, etc. It is similar for sleeping bags. I have about 5 bags and liners, but none are rated for super cold temps. I hate to buy more sleeping bags, but I would be better off buying some hard core sleeping bag, rather than combining bags, etc. Should I buy a specialized mat, or are people using regular thermarests, etc.? I have always worried about weight, but this a paradigm shift with the sleds, etc. Do people bring fur blankets, etc? In a nutshell, I am not sure where to start. I continue to read about winter camping, so maybe it will fall in place. I hope to attend an event, where I can see some of the tents, etc. Do I need a different stove (Now using Isobutane-propane)?
Maybe I am making this more complicated than it is. : ) I was just curious how people got into the sport-you know, like what did you buy first, what did you rent....Comment
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The gear people use is a wide range.
My clothing is mostly wool, but my sleeping gear and shelter is all modern fabrics, insulation is a mix of down and synthetic.
I don't carry fur and canvas, that's just my preference, I'm not willing to deal with the weight anymore.
But again, it's personal preference.
Where you go and when is a big factor, I seldom find a need for a big mongo parka unless it's -28F and windy and I'm sitting on a lake ice fishing.
I don't generally require a large amount of clothing during the day, especially if I'm moving at all.
My legs almost never get cold even with light layers in cold weather.
Sleeping is a whole other ball game, as I've gotten older I am colder when I sleep, so my sleep gear has gotten thicker and thicker as time goes on.
Don't model your gear after anything I said.
My point is, there is so much variation from one person to the next, you pretty much have to experiment to find out what really works for you.
For example, stuff a couple bags that you already have together and sleep in the yard, or close to the truck until you are confident about what you need, if anything.
If I were you I wouldn't rush to buy to much new gear until you can really determine what it is you need or want.Comment
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I never rented so I can't comment there.
What I did learn too late was and is that getting enough insulation under you is more important then how warm your sleeping bag is.
I also learnt late that layering too many clothes doesn't work as well as layering the right weight of clothing, 7 layers of Ultra Light underwear is never going to be as warm as a good down parka. I actually bought a superwarm sleeping bag, rated to -75C for worst case shiver all nite survival but I have sold it. I figure that if I ever do get to Alaska in winter I can layer my current sleeping bags to achieve that same rating and all it will cost me is an extra kilo or two on the sled. Overbags work
Nothing wrong with the original Thermarest mats but you need to think about using the thickest ones and adding a thick CCF mat under them [ or over them ] and I find that the wider mats are better when it's cold and that the older style rectangular mats work better than the tapered ones.
Layering a light weight synthetic bag over a reasonable warm down bag works very well but the extra layer needs to be large enough and this is a real problem with lightweight gear as sometimes the weight savings come due to being made smaller. Make it easy and do some reading on the new US army PCU system and look to buying one of the type 2 parkas as your warm layer, good value even if a bit heavy.
My area is a wet cold area like the Scottish Cairngorms, I envy you people in the Far North where insulation works better than it does in 100% humidity.
I've been winter camping a long time and I have accumulated some very specialised gear but I started out with not much and knowing even less, I shivered a lot but luckily never died.
Sleeping well and warm is the first priority, concentrate on that first and try and modify what you already own to work before you buy new gear. You may hate deep winter camping and specialised gear is hard to sell and always loses a lot of valueComment
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Portage99 , I think I can relate a bit to your dilemma. I have a backpacking and canoe camping background, and I am well outfitted for all that. I even worked in an outdoor store for some years and had a closet full of outdoor clothing and gear.
But I never did much winter camping because I approached it with that same backpacking/mountaineering mindset, and that kind of winter camping is, well... cold! (Mountaineers are such a miserable lot! 😁 )
My outdoor trips changed over the years when kids came into the picture. Less free time meant fewer outings, so I sold the climbing gear and a lot of other toys, and focused on canoe trips because I live in MN and the BWCA is awesome. Fast forward a decade or so, and my buddy talked me into doing another winter trip... Well, the last one was miserable cold, and I wasn't about to repeat that so I dusted of my copy of the Conover book and started learning more about this whole hot-tenting idea.
Turns out that while I was away, there'd been a renaissance of sorts! Cottage industries had popped up to supply canvas tents and toboggans and traditional snowshoes and wood stoves to make the whole Snow Walker approach more accessible. YouTube has a wealth of information (sort of, if you look in the right places), and there are a couple of decent online forums. Heck, there are even Symposiums and Gatherings of like-minded crazies!
I settled on a Snow Walker's approach to BWCA winter travel, which for me meant a canvas tent and stove, a DIY toboggan and snowshoes. I went all in and have spent a lot of money in the last couple of years but I have done so knowing that this gear is built for the long haul by genuinely nice people who live near me -- most of this gear has come from MN and WI. And it's built with traditional materials that have stood the test of time. Less nylon and GoreTex, more canvas and wood and wool...
Reading between the lines of your posts, it seems you are at least considering the same "traditional" approach, so my recommendations should be viewed through that lens. Maybe I read you wrong; if so, please disregard.
Talk a winter-savvy friend into taking you out, or maybe even consider taking a guided trip, first -- fighting your own stupidity can make for a frustrating trip, and might put you off of the whole idea before it has a fair chance to take hold (first-hand learnings, here). But odds are good this winter thing will grab your whole soul and turn you into one of us.
I'd suggest buying only the things that you cannot rent or borrow for now. Focus on clothing and those things that will make you safer and more comfortable in the snow. Don't worry as much about what the gear weighs (this is hard for an ultralight backpacker like me to say!). Footwear is important, and money well spent (I love my mukluks!). Buy or borrow a good down parka. You can double up a couple of your 3 season sleeping bags (one bag inside another) and you can rent gear like snowshoes, a canvas tent and stove (yeah, your Isobutane stove will generally suck in below zero weather!). You can turn a Paris sled into a pulk, or go nuts and build a toboggan -- I was able to assemble my own from scratch with some internet resources, but there are kits available too.
After you've been out there and realized how amazing it is, you can spend the off-season dreaming about your next trip and shopping more carefully for the things you really need. Watch for the good stuff like Snowtrekker tents on Craigslist and FB Marketplace, and the forum sale posts. Maybe you'll want to invest in a subzero bag or parka, but maybe you can find it on sale... it will all come together faster than you think!Comment
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Having read the Conovers book a few times I will say that if you follow the NO SYNTHETIC way of thinking slavishly your gear will be about 50% heavier, just something to keep in mind. I do think that there is room for compromise where the big ticket items are concerned.Comment
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I would dive in in small doses. Start with a day trip with a lunch and migrate into a overnight that does not push what gear you have based on your day trip experience.
Second and likely the most important do it in your backyard if you can...at least then you have a easy bail out and you will learn a LOT.
Do your research on the various gear and ideas and based on your needs from 'your' experiences., buy what you need/want.
In the winter time I spend every night (when at home) sleeping out on my deck in my hammock. I know exactly how my various quilts perform all the way down to -35c so far and know I'm good for -40c.
Having the hot tent and wood stove is a must IMO. My system weighs in at 7lbs for the 2 plus hammock and insulation would put me around 10-15lbs give or take relative to temps.
Having that warmth and drying ability is worth every penny spent vs cold camping which to me is asking for trouble hence don't do that lightly.
Start small and work your way into the whole experience...it is well worth it!!!!
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My only suggestion is to start winter camping close to home with the gear you got. Even in the back yard. Once you start to understand how your physical body responds to the cold, you'll start to figure out what you need.
It has taken me many years to get my gear to a point where I want it. Mostly wool clothing with traditional snowshoes and coat, canvas tent and wood stove. My first overnights were to a nearby state park where I could flee to my car if things got out of hand. Then I just started adding what I thought were needed. Got a cheap sled for at first, but eventually made my own UHMW sled. Started with two sleeping bags, one stuffed in another, but eventually replaced that with a -10 degree bag. Found army surplus wool pants, but got some nice wool bibs after awhile.
Just get out camping in the winter, start a big old fire in the pit to stay warm, and see where it leads.Comment
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I say first look for sleeping system - good sleeping bag and pad
closing- lots of un expensive options layering system- just make sure you have non synthetic outer shell that will not get holes from sparks
moving- sled/toboggan/pulk and ski/snowshoes.
last probably will be most expensive - shelter heating - $$$$spending when you get really hooked up, till then tarp, 3 season tents will do just fine
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Thanks, everyone. Patience is not one of my virtues and I get antsy to get "out there". This thread has helped me slow down and prioritize. I already have a lot of gear to help with beginner trips. Is there somewhere (given COVID) to see hot tents set up. see models? See the workings?Comment
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Where are you located...? There are enough people on the forum, you might find one or two living (reasonably) nearby who might be willing to show off their hot tent set up with an offer of a 6 pack of beer, etc. Most of us are able and willing to try to get new people into our particular form of winter craziness. And there are a lot of setups that can be made to work nicely while you decide what your really want and have the budget for.Originally posted by Portage99 View Post
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What tent and hot stove are you using? That sounds lighter than most of the setups I have researched.Originally posted by Bkrgi View PostComment
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Seekoutside Ti wood stove and bits plus the tent is my own creation made from 1.1oz silpoly PU4000.Originally posted by Hiking Quest View PostComment
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